Bullshit ist gefährlicher als Lügen

This is an English version of the written interview with Peter Littger for the German television news channel n-tv. The interview is about dealing with workplace bullshit and using the C.R.A.P Framework presented in the article: Confronting indifference toward truth: Dealing with workplace bullshit.

1. We've got a lot of Bullshit – also in Germany and by the same English word "bullshit" in German. So far, we would have thought that it is an insult, an allegation and not more than a condescending and reproaching vilification in everyday life. Now it seems there is an entire academic concept that can be categorised and defined in a scientific way and bear scrutiny. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. While bullshit has often been used as an expletive to rebuke something viewed as false, disingenuous, or even wrong, it is seeing increasing use as an important technical term for a specific form of misrepresentation. Specifically, it is used to refer how people communicate with no regard to the truth, and how this is an important distinction from the act of lying.

2. Can you please explain to us what bullshit is exactly. In what way is it different from a lie, from inaccurate information, fake news for example or from utter nonsense, satire and jokes?

Bullshitting and lying are two different forms of misrepresentation. Bullshitting is when someone makes a statement with no regard for the truth. Lying is when someone knows the truth, and deliberately misrepresents it. In that sense a bullshitter is more dangerous than a liar, because a liar has a relationship with the truth, whereas the bullshitter has none. The liar conceals the truth, while the bullshitter has some other motivation or objective, perhaps to convince others of something, or to gain support for themselves, or to aggrandize themselves. The bullshitter will say whatever will serve that objective, regardless of whether it is a truth or a lie. 

For example, if an organizational leader knows a proposed strategic change will result in job losses, but chooses to lie about it, at least that truth is present in their minds, and hopefully influences their actions.  On the other hand, a bullshitter neither knows nor cares whether their statements are true or false, so is free to say and do whatever furthers their preferred agenda without the constraint of truth. 

Another example would be when in 2018, U.S. President Donald Trump erroneously told Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau that the United States had a trade deficit with Canada, but later admitted that he had no idea if there was a deficit. Trump’s admission revealed that he was bullshitting, rather than lying.

3. What purpose does bullshit have – is there perhaps a need and a justification for it?

Bullshit is an act of communication that is used to pursue an agenda, and the nature of the agenda defines different types of bullshitting. In some social and professional contexts bullshit maybe necessary and even appreciated. Consider the domain of entrepreneurship where bullshit is certainly abundant and viewed positively in some situations.  For example, it has its own bullshit dictionary of jargon and acronyms: ‘boot strapping’, ‘disrupting’, ‘pivoting’, ‘Uberizing’, etc.  Entrepreneurs are expected to engage in bullshitting to demonstrate confidence, even bravado, when it comes to their ideas.  Thus, many in this domain seem to not only tolerate but even celebrate bullshit: an article in The Entrepreneur magazine reported ‘Bullshit is good for the work we do...So, we must not condemn it. We must understand it – embrace it even’.

We should also distinguish between bullshitting and storytelling. Many cultures and traditions have a long history of, particularly oral, of storytelling. Some of these traditions are about entertaining others, but in many cases,  they are intended to wrap up universal or life truths in a fictional, compelling narrative. None of that is bullshitting. Again, it comes down to the motivations of the bullshitter – why they are saying what they are saying.

4. Is it possible to distinguish different functions of bullshit: at the workplace, at home, in public?  

Yes, the agenda for bullshitting is an important factor to help distinguish between different types of bullshit. Recent research highlights how people engage in ‘persuasive bullshitting’ to impress, coax, or fit, and ‘evasive bullshitting’ to make statements that minimize negative social costs for oneself or their organizations. Also, in our research we refer to ‘social bullshit.’, where people interact in social contexts make statements with no reference to truth, so as to joke, tease and entertain. Furthermore, we explain how some bullshitters unknowingly bullshit because they are naïve, biased, or sloppy in their handling of statements. They do not realize they are crafting or spreading bullshit.

5. In your study on bullshit at the workplace, you claim that "many organisations are drowning in a flood of corporate bullshit" – what makes you think so and can you please give examples?

Great question, because you have spotted a claim that verges on being bullshit, because we don’t have lots of empirical evidence to support it! But we have heard from many employees who are unhappy with the amount and impact of bullshit in their workplaces, and we are watching public figures bullshit every day. And given all this, researchers, media and society in general seem to be giving increasing attention to who is more likely to bullshit, why they bullshit, and the impact of bullshit.

6. Is it possible to draw a line between good and bad bullshitting? As much as there can be useful and well-intentioned white lies (e.g. in front of children), can there be useful bullshitting that doesn't do any harm to people's relations eventually? And can you think of bullshitting that is particularly detrimental?

It largely comes down to the agenda and the context as to whether bullshitting is a good or bad thing. In our article, we focus on the workplace. We believe that workplace bullshit may be used for good reasons, such as for triggering creativity and innovation, or inspiring employees to work towards worthwhile goals.  In contrast, bullshitting can be harmful when it is used to persuade people to take a course action that turns out to be harmful. Consider for example, when leaders advise citizens to drink or inject themselves with disinfectant to treat the coronavirus infections.  Finally, bullshitting may start with good reasons but later go bad.  For example, a leader may bullshit early on in a strategic initiative with the goal of inspiring and reassuring employees (This is definitely going to work!), but if they ignore evidence about the failure of that initiative and continue to endorse it, that bullshit can be harmful to the organization.

7. Is Santa Claus bullshit?

As academics, we would have to answer that many statements about Santa are lies, not bullshit, because parents believe that Santa does not exist and yet will state that he does.  As fans of Santa, we assert unequivocally that Santa himself is not bullshit.

8. In what way is it possible, necessary and important to deal with – or as you say "act against“ bullshit? (Sorry, three questions.)

In our article the ‘A’ in the C.R.A.P. framework considers how people act when faced with bullshit in their workplaces. We draw on renowned researcher Albert Hirschman’s ideas to propose four possible responses that people have:

• Voice = speak up and confront the bullshit
• Loyalty = accept, live with and even support the bullshit
• Exit = escape the bullshit by leaving the workplace
• Neglect = disengage from the workplace and its bullshit

Voice is the option that is likely to be most beneficial for organizations, but the riskiest for workers.  Unless workers can exit to other good options, they might be well-advised to simply  accept the bullshit and soldier on in their work, or disengage as much as they can from the parts of their workplace that are full of bullshit, and focus on more fulfilling projects.

9. Please explain to us C.R.A.P.

The C.R.A.P framework consists of four steps: Comprehend why bullshit exists; Recognize when it is produced; know how to Act against it; and Prevent it from occurring.

Comprehend involves understanding that the distinction between bullshit and lying is essential for stifling the production and spread of bullshit. We can reveal a lie by uncovering the truth, but dealing effectively with workplace bullshit is more complicated.

Recognize highlights that bullshit is designed to appeal to an audience — and to hide that it is not supported by evidence or logic. So, bullshit often appears in the form of cliches, platitudes or business jargon that seem meaningful but upon closer examination are empty. Bullshit can also be enhanced by using data and visualization techniques that conceal, distort or obfuscate the truth.

Act means choosing from the options of Voice, Exit, Loyalty, or Neglect, as we discussed above.

Prevent is concerned with how to deter the production and spread of bullshit in the workplace. This can be achieved by requiring communication that is clear, evidence-based and jargon-free, and by encouraging critical thinking that values evidence over opinions and expertise over egalitarianism. Leaders should require decisions to be based on fact rather than hunches, myths or anecdotes, and to stamp out “bullshit production” opportunities like useless committees and meetings.  These settings can provide fertile ground for bullshitters to promote or legitimize their bullshit.

While it is unlikely that any organization will ever be able to (or event want to) rid itself of bullshit entirely, by taking the steps in the C.R.A.P. framework, astute leaders can work toward stemming its flood. Together the four steps of the C.R.A.P framework embody a number of ‘don’ts’ and ‘dos” for dealing with bullshit in the workplace and society.

Five don’ts:

• Don’t confuse bullshit with lying and others forms of misrepresentation.
• Don’t forget that bullshit will often appeal to you personally, but that doesn’t mean it’s not bullshit!   
• Don’t forget that people knowingly and unknowingly bullshit.
• Don't make decisions before considering the evidence, its veracity and source.
• Don’t be afraid to say, “I don’t know” and “I don’t understand”.

Five dos:

• Do call for evidence and require logical explanations.
• Do be alert to inconsistencies, biases and vague and jargon-filled statements.
• Do proportion your belief to the availability of evidence and its veracity.
• Do strive to stamp out excessive jargon, statistical trickery, and pointless meetings and committees.
• Do understand that we are all vulnerable to bullshit and to bullshitters, even if we have excellent intentions.

10. So far, have I exposed myself as a bullshitter? Why?

Well, do you know for a fact that there can be useful white lies (in the statement you made in Question 6)?  If not, then you have made a bullshit statement. Welcome to the club, we are all members!

11. Who are the biggest and the best bullshitters in the world?

There is little research that identifies the biggest and most effective bullshitters in the world, so we can only answer that question with bullshit of our own: politicians and marketers. 

One recent study of 40,000 teenagers in several English-speaking countries found that bullshitters exhibit high levels of overconfidence and believe they work hard, persevere at tasks and are popular amongst their peers. The study is found that male teenagers are more likely to bullshit than female teenagers., and more likely to come from advantaged socioeconomic backgrounds. Teenagers in North America are bigger bullshitters than teenagers in England, Australia and New Zealand, while those in Ireland and Scotland are the least likely bullshitters.

12. Is there – or will there be – such a thing as "bullshit studies" or a "bullshit faculty“ at your university or at any other academic institution that you know of?

There is a great course on bullshit studies at the University of Washington. Here are the learning objectives for those who take it:

• Remain vigilant for bullshit contaminating your information diet.
• Recognize said bullshit whenever and wherever you encounter it.
• Figure out for yourself precisely why a particular bit of bullshit is bullshit.
• Provide a statistician or fellow scientist with a technical explanation of why a claim is bullshit.
• Provide your crystals-and-homeopathy aunt or casually racist uncle with an accessible and persuasive explanation of why a claim is bullshit.

The faculty teaching that course are Carl Bergstrom and Jevin West, who have a book forthcoming titled “Calling Bullshit.”  They also do admirable work on Twitter, identifying bullshit in everyday communication.  They have been extraordinarily busy in recent months!

Ian McCarthy

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